So it’s interesting to find out about that word for “leaders.”. It is assumed or implied that these are true not false elders. It’s about the Savior. The obedience and submission required by Hebrews 13:17 is about instruction in the Word of God.  I know this because former children have spoken with me in confidence, and not only one or two. The master chef at the restaurant where you’ve been hired, or the tech on the other end of the phone who’s explaining how to fix your broken website. Consider each of the 3 key words in the verse. Appearances and the praise of men prove little beyond the ability to put on a good show. We have the Holy Spirit, who helps us—yes, us lowly ordinary Christians—interpret those Scriptures too. Hebrews 13:17 (ESV) – Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. How does he treat his wife? So be a swayable person. Every Christian is responsible for studying to show themselves approved and to rightly divide the Word of truth. ... Humility should characterize a spiritual leader. It is submission based on the will of God as revealed in His Word. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Thanks so much for all the hard work that created that not so excruciating, but truly long, post! https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rXrd8MYay5Vg5s7JXFx7S91hDTlm1CVX/view?fbclid=IwAR03umqe64Pm1-GMb0caAKYEHlKztg4onhRyMzS7teIzwbnqnGivUBnQlrA. Most people in the world have no experience of lasting joy in their lives. is is the primary ... submit to the spiritual leaders God appoints over us, and to move with them as a team. Here are a few examples where Paul is doing the persuading: In each case, the people who heard Paul had their thinking changed, which would lead to a change of action. It’s always so fascinating. . . I find it interesting that just below the surface was a whole slew of sexual misconduct that was being covered up. Considering, reckoning, judging. Again, Ron at scripturerevealed.com says (emphasis mine): Since it is already qualified by the requirement to “be persuaded” before you “submit,” this verse cannot be used to advocate blind obedience that is sometimes required by leaders. 1. See my work as a trauma-informed editor and book coach at rebeccadaviswordworking.com, Click on each image to go to Amazon to read reviews and purchase. It comes with great cost. There’s something tricky about it, though. Goodness, I was just thinking about John Bevere this morning. Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Paul instructs what to do if an elder is found to be in sin. “Obedience follows blessing but submission follows sacrifice.” ... “Obey your spiritual leaders, and do what they say. We must closely examine the little things that reveal a person’s true heart. . All of our resources exist to guide you toward everlasting joy in Jesus Christ. Tweet Quote . (Hebrews 13:17, NASB) Thanks! Resist means to "stand against" and submit means to "stand under". (Micah 3:5). e) Give them reason to do this with joy. Some thoughts that didn’t make it into the blog post: The only other Scriptures that use this Greek word translated “leader” are these: Matthew 2:6, in which God the Father says that God the Son will be the one to lead His people. We must be willing to discipline ourselves to submit to a higher authority to prepare ourselves for leading others. People who are dark leaders act as if they are the Holy Spirit and people must follow what they say. (You can also click on “My books” above for more information.). Seems the two often go hand in hand! We often do not know what God is doing now. Instead, it is a reminder that spiritual leaders in the church who are trustworthy and who proclaim the truth are in a place of persuasive guidance that fellow believers should yield to. (Ephesians 4:14-15). (2 Peter 2:1-3). Sheer idiocy. It’s the same thing in 1 Timothy 5:19–20. not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge.” So the New Testament is not naïve about the abuses of leadership. The same word is used in each case. That is why He gave us qualifications to use as guidelines for selecting church leaders in 1 Timothy 3:1-13 and Titus 1:5-9 and why He told us what … If leaders demonstrate these criteria, we should allow ourselves to be persuaded by them for our own good on the rocky path of life. We are required to “submit” to those things that we can “be persuaded” are true according to the Word of God. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.” Leaders Who Serve. It has been used to buttress significant spiritual abuse through the years. .”, Amplified: “Obey your [spiritual] leaders and submit to them [recognizing their authority over you] . Sometimes too great for some to pay. The word obey is a very broad word that means be persuaded by, trust, rely on. The KJV “those who have the rule over you” in Hebrews 13:17 is a translation designed to implement church hierarchy along the lines of the Roman Catholics that the translators claimed to disdain. . “Authority,” intimidation, threats, pain, etc. This is a different word. The moment someone claims the authority to tell you what scripture means, and demands that you unquestioningly accept their interpretation, is the moment you should run for the doors. Why are we always surprised when the one who looks the most like a shining light proves to be of the darkness? Some will say—I hear it now—my pastor will show me how to recognize these false prophets. People can be “ordained” through being able to answer a lot of hard questions after seminary. Dark leadership is abusive and demanding. Untwisting Scriptures and offering the Living Water, to help others (especially those who have been abused) experience the joy to be found in Jesus Christ. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you…. We have our Lord Jesus Christ, who teaches us through His Scriptures. Hebrews 13:17 does not imply blind obedience to spiritual authorities, nor should it ever be invoked by a spiritual leader in order to coerce or compel people to obey them. God is absolute. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.”. (If you don’t, you will be excommunicated and shunned.). Now, when the subject being led involves character and morals in any way, there’s an added dimension. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no … But if he is not gracious and loving to his own family, if the people whose lives he invests in do not grow in wisdom and maturity, these examples of good ‘leadership’ may be little but show. And culturally, Tony, the defining spirit of America today is the opposite of that, isn’t it? In fact, as I look back, over the 33 years I enjoyed at Bethlehem, it was a wonderful thing to have an eldership and a people who, while not being naïve, unbiblical yes-men — I don’t think we produced a cult — there was a sweet experience where, if I tried to rally them for something, they were basically ready and eager to be rallied for biblical things. First, there’s the context of the whole Bible. They can go bad and disqualify themselves from being obeyed or submitted to. I think it means we should want to imitate their faith, and I think it means we should have a happy inclination to comply with their instructions. It's a lot easier to find a book or a conference about leadership than about submission. Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. Church people often trust that because a man went to a certain seminary, he must be a good man, without closely examining the qualities needed in a church leader as outlined in the epistles. Do you suppose He would have told those who wanted to know God to obey those “spiritual authorities” and submit themselves to them? Of all the Spiritual Disciplines none has been more abused than the Discipline of submission 1. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds.” (Jeremiah 14:14). 2. So we know the Bible is not allowing or endorsing false elders. When it comes to actual submission and obedience (that is, when we stop thinking about it and try to do it), we discover that it seems much easier to be submissive to God than to fellow Christians. . reform? by Mike Duran on April 3, 2012. Their work is to watch over your souls, and they are accountable to God. Actus 14:12, in which the people of Lystra saw that Paul was the leading speaker. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. But we don’t need to know what God is doing now to keep following him in faith. And if we blindly allow others to interpret the Bible for us, aren’t we simply falling into the way of the Middle Ages Catholics—the very problem that the Reformation came to . It says OBEY and SUBMIT. THE DISCIPLINE OF SUBMISSION ... Introduction A. The Greek words for “obey” and “submit” mean to obey and submit! In today’s passage, Jesus was questioned by the religious leaders as to what authority He had to do the things that He was doing and to teach the things that He was teaching. We have so many ideas about what it does say when it doesn’t. (Ephesians 6:10-13). A regular listener named Steve from the great city of Omaha, Nebraska asks, “Pastor John, what does it mean to submit to and obey your leaders in Hebrews 13:17?”, The text says, “Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. He speaks of image making as an organization and reveals how organizations preserve this image. We all go through it on a daily basis from different groups of people, social structures, and higher power. No. We are called to be light and expose them. Is he gentle and patient with his children? The otherphrase was, \"keep watch over your souls\" - which means that thebenefit that matters most to leaders in the church should be thebenefit of the soul. So they would fit under #1 and #2 above. Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said: “This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’’ (Matthew 15:7-9). We’re on a mission to change that. Here’s a part of one from early 2009: A quotation I read bothered me a little. [Yes, it’s clear that there’s such a thing as true elders and such a thing as false elders. They would not consent to follow him off a cliff. But interestingly, the Greek word translated “those who have the rule over you” (which in later versions was more wisely translated “leader” or “the one leading”) also has a verb meaning: to deem, consider, account, judge, reckon, think, esteem, suppose. He denied His rights constantly in His relationships with others. My husband and I were wondering what to do with his red book we found recently…I guess we need to start a Heretical Book Shelf…. Some, like Harold Camping, have called for Christians to leave the church. c) Their work is to watch over your souls, d) And they are accountable to God. (Ha. Obedience is relative. Don’t be a distrustful people. We must not allow ourselves to be deceived by words, appearances and seeming success. Hebrews 13:17. a) Obey your Spiritual Leaders, b) And do what they say. (Side note. Here are a few versions you may be familiar with. Hebrews 13:17 is clearly not a license for men to dictate, rule, control, command, dominate, and otherwise exercise authority over others in the church. Here are a few examples of “spiritual authorities” under the Old Covenant. Jesus did not mince words about the “spiritual authorities” of His day: Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you. Leadership Development Series Lesson 4: Understanding Spiritual Authority Understanding Spiritual Authority Before we talk about moving into ministry, lets recap some basic principles that we have learned ... Obedience is not automatic; it is learned behavior. There’s Jesus! obedience. So, with all that, I would try to distill the meaning of Hebrews 13:17 something like this: I should have a bent toward trusting its leaders. In any field? They trusted Jesus Christ and became true Christians. Submission is a matter of attitude. Hebrews 13:17 does not imply blind obedience to spiritual authorities, nor should it ever be invoked by a spiritual leader in order to coerce or compel people to obey them. It is about having the heart of a humble servant. (I love doing this part. Submission and obedience. There is a dangerous false teaching that says that even if we do not agree with church leaders we are to “submit” and somehow we will be blessed. Even in a life of sorrow and pain, this can be a Christian experience of joy. A worthy church leader will give evidence of a life worth following. The one who leads is to be as the one who serves. Let’s follow Him together!”. Few passages are more commonly misread, or simply avoided, than Hebrew 13:17: Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. But whoever desires to be great among you, let him be your servant.  And whoever desires to be chief among you, let him be your servant;  even as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many. And the New Testament itself says leaders can go wrong. So it is no surprise if [Satan’s] servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. And the Lord said to me: “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. When your life reflects that submission and that obedience to God, then you are reflecting the humility Jesus lived out when He was on the earth. In individual matters, it comes to us through our spiritual leaders. Obedience to the Lord requires obedience to God’s delegated authorities (employers, church leaders, civil authorities) Rebellion against God’s delegated authority is rebellion against God Rebellion to authority opens one up to the demonic realm resulting in deception People should live by the principle of obedience rather than reason . . I want to continue to have increasing understanding of the truths that our God has proclaimed in His Word and in His world, and proclaim those beautiful truths to others. What a delight this will be, when we Christians, all of us, leaders official and unofficial, can turn to those of us a bit behind us on the path of the Christian life and say to each other, “Look! That’s why it’s so easy for the false teachers to secretly bring in destructive heresies. Steve Smith goes on to say about that mountain guide: However, they do not follow him blindly, as though they wore blindfolds. KJV: “Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves. I used the King James Version translation there, to give a nod to the huge impact the KJV has had in the life of the Church. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. A church full of leaders without submission is implausible; as indeed is a company, a country or a family. Look at the language in verse 17. The difference, if any, between the two words is that obedience implies going along with direction or commands, whereas submission involves an attitude. 2. Church people, unwitting, naïve, and foolishly trusting, simply assume that these men are qualified leaders, when some of them are actually very evil, even engaging in trafficking and other horrors. Some Christians wander from church to church and do not see a need to be ... third view does not believe the members have to be subject to spiritual authorities in their quest for a true spiritual experience. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you. The obedience and submission required by Hebrews 13:17 is about instruction in the Word of God. The aim of leadership I saw was in two phrases: \"that would beunprofitable for you\" - which means that the aim of leadership isthe profit of the people - that they would be benefited. Here’s the Joy participates in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. Jesus Calls Us to Obey. Un-submission leads to carnality and is the !rst sin of ... to mean obedience alone. And they’re proud of their blind obedience. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.”, And culturally, Tony, the defining spirit of America today is the opposite of that, isn’t it? Submission can be quite a thorny issue at times. It’s not just about “show me how to do this thing,” it’s about “let me see your life, all of it, so I can know if you’re truly living what you teach.”. Now what would that mean? Post was not sent - check your email addresses! This is so spot-on, TS00. ... was a debate within the Church as to whether a Christian should obey the State or whether there are limits … (Mark 13:22), I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them. A Cry for Justice also has a post on this topic, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window), Click to share on Tumblr (Opens in new window), Click to share on LinkedIn (Opens in new window), Click to email this to a friend (Opens in new window), Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window), y husband and I had to make a decision based on Eph 5, Reflections on my 63rd Birthday: The Box of Things I Don’t Know What to Do With, See my work as a trauma-informed editor and book coach at, Why did David lift his eyes to the hills? Acts 7:9b-10 in which Pharaoh made Joseph the second in command leader of Egypt in the matter of the coming famine. Proverbs 15:33b.  Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. Do a Google search for “Shepherding Movement” or “The Fort Lauderdale Five” for the full history of that movement including its ultimate demise and the subsequent repentance of each of its leaders for what they say was “doctrinal error” resulting in “unhealthy submission resulting in perverse and unbiblical obedience to human leaders” (quote from Bob Mumford, one of the 5 leaders of the movement). If they are leaders, should we obey and submit to them, according to Hebrews 13:17? The Scriptures I cited above were all persuading or being persuaded about something true. Power … Many in the body of Christ believe that Hebrews 13:17 demands complete and absolute obedience to a spiritual leader, but is that really what the passage is saying? ], Not those with the appearance of godliness. You trust the person to know how to do this thing and to be able to explain it to you. To not submit to authority, any authority; government, home, or the local church, is to walk in … Today’s sermon is entitled, “Submission and Obedience.” Submission and obedience have everything to do with authority. So thankful to hear that this post was helpful to you, Bev! AND when the subject involves Christianity, we have a higher leader than the one at the front of the church building. He knows them well beyond what we could even think. Thus says the Lord concerning the prophets who lead my people astray, who cry “Peace” when they have something to eat, but declare war against him who puts nothing into their mouths. But many. (Acts 20:29-30). After having read Wade Mullen’s Doctoral thesis, the aspect of dark and light leadership, as he calls it, it became very revealing of what I think is happening in ‘Christian Organizational’ leaderships. And I argued that we exist to save the soulsof the saints. You hypocrites! Thank you, Rebecca, for living out what you proclaim. Cronyism means that men who rub shoulders with each other will refer each other to church positions, whether or not they are qualified. Obedience is a matter of conduct. Gentiles were born apart from Christ, apart from God’s people, apart from God’s promises, apart from hope, and apart from God. . Obedience isn’t for a certain segment of Christians; it’s for all Christians. This means keeping the eyes, mind, and heart engaged the entire time. . Or discounts the question his young son bravely raised his hand to ask, making him feel small and silly? They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. And why it is so important. Be persuaded by those who go before/are ahead of you/more mature in the faith, and let them influence/instruct you through their righteous actions and words, for they look out for you (to benefit your soul)… so they will give testimony about you with joy, instead of grief (these believers are sad when you miss out on God’s best for you)… it will be your loss and you will miss the benefits & blessings if you choose not to follow their godly/righteous example…, the end result is you will be obedient to God’s best for your life! We continue to experience blessings of God to keep us afloat and our needs being met. In Acts 20:30, Paul is speaking to the elders, and he says, “From among your own selves will rise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them.” So there you have people submitting to elders who are taking them to destruction. The concept of submission to the church leadership has suffered in the consumer culture of the West. Many times career choices can be determined by decisions those in … On my part, I have fallen into leadership of an unconventional sort. Obedience and submission are part of the Christian life. And not only public evidence, the kind shown in charisma, speaking ability, fund raising ability, marketing ability, photo ops, books written, impressive connections, public relations, and a full calendar on the conference circuit. So with all those Scriptures for our framework, let’s examine the passage in question, Hebrews 13:17. “They would not consent to follow him off a cliff.” I’ve heard more than one Brother So and So say if their pastor told them to jump off a cliff, they would do it. This teaching is not backed up by the scriptures. You make me laugh since I called it “an excruciatingly long blog post.” lol, After having experienced this type of leadership in my life on at least 2 occasions, God lead me to Ephesians 5:6 onwards… “Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. I have faith in him. And that’s why it is so hard. A Cry for Justice also has a post on this topic, here. Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. Thank you. We could no longer be partners. (2 Timothy 4:3-4). Do you suppose God would have said to those people, “Obey those spiritual leaders, and submit yourselves?” I think not. ... For Human Beings Guards Leadership Obedience, To Human Authorities elders, in the church Safety Headship anniversaries Useless Labour. We can submit to others by denying ourselves also. So there appear to be plenty of cases where “obey your [so-called] spiritual authorities” doesn’t apply. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. You church people. OBEY your “SPIRITUAL AUTHORITIES,” which is US, the church “leaders.” SUBMIT to US without question or challenge. This word doesn’t mean that. These teachings consisted of: spiritual covering, unhealthy spiritual authority, discipleship to man, unhealthy submission to personal shepherds, and covenant relationships. But of course those who follow false teachers never think the teachers are false. So, for leadership, the emphasis must always fall on servanthood, not lording it over others. It was not written without an agenda, which was to codify the divine right of kings. The text says, “Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. you guessed it . But through integrity in his love for Jesus, being the same person in public, in private (with a few select people the leader trusts) and in secret (when the leader is alone). Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace. If they craft a vision and they set some goals, be supportive. This verse has been used to get church people to check their brains at the door and obey like happy robots (even if it’s not to the degree of committing mass suicide).  Can this possibly be true? That would certainly not be for your benefit.” Hebrew 13:17 NLT. In his helpful article on Hebrews 13:17, Ron from scripturerevealed.com said. Submission means putting aside our own desires for the benefit of others. He judged Joseph to be worthy to lead because of what Joseph had already done. Imagine how difficult it must be for the meek, the trusting, the gentle of spirit who simply desire to serve God and be a blessing to others, and believe that their ‘leaders’ will show them how best to do so. There are about 20 Scriptures using this word with that meaning. They made that judgment according to what they observed. But Paul also said, PRAY for spiritual leaders. It comes to mean obey because that is what you do when you trust somebody. We know this first and foremost because Jesus and His Apostles told us that such things are forbidden! In order to become good leaders, we must first become good followers. It tells us that there are some who “have the appearance of godliness”—hmm, wonder what that looks like—who are actually lovers of self and money and pleasure, proud and arrogant, abusive, and more. And we know from the side of leaders that power corrupts. For 33 years, he served as pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church, Minneapolis, Minnesota. (1 John 4:1). Excellent! When your life reflects the humility Jesus lived out, that makes you more appealing as a leader. The first thing I want you to see is this. Because of those in leadership who were supposedly leading us to dispel the darkness were dark themselves my husband and I had to make a decision based on Eph 5 . But there are three uses of this word in the Scriptures in which “authority” definitely plays a part. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you. In fact, the more widely renowned, the more I begin to wonder . And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. He might preach very engaging sermons. Spiritual The Submission Of Christ Submission To God's Will. But according to the meaning of this word, that behavioral change that looks like “obedience” is actually supposed to be a result of thoughtful consideration of a person’s sound arguments and evidence, rather than unthinking robotic compliance. Our hearts should be bent, and our disposition should be that way, and our wants should be that way, and our inclination should be that way. Here’s the bottom line: People can be persuaded of something either true or false, in different ways, either good or bad. An appalling and horrible thing has happened in the land: the prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule at their direction; my people love to have it so, but what will you do when the end comes? Hebrews 13:17 is the only place this word is used in the entire Bible. — Hebrews 13:17. Submission is absolute. And the other word, submit, occurs only here in the New Testament — this particular form of submit: upeiko. Submission vs Obedience Difference between Submission and Obedience is important to know as we live in a society where obedience and submission to power and authority are not a novel phenomenon to us. Would love your thoughts, please comment. If you’re a believer in Jesus, you also have the Holy Spirit and also can be listening to His voice. It is an individual choice to resist or submit. Working on it was very helpful to me as well. It is about following a religious leader who is proclaiming truth and holiness. Once they convinced you they were in control and you had to blindly submit to their authority, then the most ridiculous weird teachings came out of the pulpit and everybody did everything they were asked to do. Thinking, “He wrote a book about authority that I’ve heard is pretty awful. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers. One of the problems that I find in Bible study is that people don’t ask themselves what Scripture doesn’t say. Leadership is found in becoming the servant of all. No, I believe it’s appropriate to assume that they showed themselves to be worthy leaders by doing what Jesus had said, serving. Hope that didn’t feel like a multiple choice quiz.). .”, NIV: “Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority . In the Bible, church leaders were ordained to lead the congregation by being chosen as worthy of leadership by those within the congregation, or appointed by a head such as Paul. But such as it is, I’ve seen that what I’ve thought a Christian leader ought to be—someone who is farther down the path of the Christian life (a little or a lot), pointing the way to Jesus—is just what Hebrews 13:17 is referring to.