EDIT: speaking as a mod, keep it civil folks. You don't read a book because of the author, do you? I liked it so much at one point I was thinking of getting the entwined serpent tattoos it talks about. Tag: marion zimmer bradley. I'm like a person who honestly wants to be a good Christian/Muslim/Jew/whatever but who still really, really likes adultery. The Wind People ♦ By Marion Zimmer Bradley ♦ Science Fiction ♦ Full Audi... Close. Carrol L. Fry. Plan to Develop Marion Zimmer Bradley’s Best-Selling Novels Into TV Series. The barbarian uncle was a Trump supporter. Check out my YouTube channel "Chip Slater's Storytime … Press J to jump to the feed. Quote of the Day » One Response. Sometime link posts look like the OP doesn't care much about what he's posting. I think it depends on when you find out, honestly. Whether or not it actually occurred is a very very big deal imo. Breen died in prison on his third conviction. Carrol L. Fry. 279 It doesn't benefit her at all if I do, and if her children were indeed molested by her and/or her husband, then they're probably getting some royalties from the sale. Seems she's not a big fan of censoring books. Said friend remembered how, as a kid, his dad NEVER left him alone with Breen and that Breen was actually incredibly well protected so it took MZB's daughter coming forward in the 80s to get the authorities to get involved. Her work has earned Honorable Mention in Year’s Best SF, Kirkus notable new release, the Locus Recommended Reading List, and James Tiptree, Jr. Award recommended list, Finalist for the … Always now. https://www.listchallenges.com/the-fantasy-sub-reddits-top-female-authored Regarding Marion Zimmer Bradley [Content Warning: Child Rape and Abuse] By Allyce July 1, 2014 authors Books fantasy marion zimmer bradley Science Fiction trigger warning TW Writing [Content Warning: This article contains frank discussion of the rape and abuse of children. Dr. … What if you knew a writer or artist who would guarantee that their work would be truly great if only they could enslave you for a time, violate you physically, sexually, emotionally, or any other way? All of that doesn't make Ender's Game any less wonderful of a book. Tag: Space the Nation. But personally, I do not want to hang out with a person like MZB (though granted, I was never a huge fan of her work, especially Darkover). TIL Marion Zimmer Bradley, bestselling author of The Mists of Avalon, abused her own daughter Moira Greyland from the age of three to age twelve along with other child victims. That doesn't stop me from acknowledging their talent, however. I love Mists. Share Space the Nation: Dr. Jen Gunter, the anti-Goop on Reddit; Tag: Fangrrls. They were arrested, put on trial and they both went to jail for a year in 1970 for imprisoning and torturing their adopted son. I only saw Ender's Game after learning that he had already received a lump sum fee, and wouldn't get one penny from my ticket. No question. Neverending list of books that everyone should read ∟The Mists of Avalon, by Marion Zimmer Bradley “There is no such thing as a true tale. I’ve never read The Mists of Avalon, it sounds great, but at the same time I think I’d be uncomfortable reading it (due to multiple accusations of child sexual abuse and rape against the author). Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, Stabby Winner, AMA Author Mary Robinette Kowal, Reading Champion IV, Worldbuilders, Mod Emeritus. MZB's children receive no money AT ALL from the sales of her books. Her first novel The Planet Savers (1958) introduced readers to the massive and complex Darkover sequence of works — by far her most famous and iconic contribution to SF. You learn something new every day; what did you learn today? Life is short and we can never read, watch, play, listen to, everything. Oh man. I don't know the series and I have never read it. I'm not going to condemn anyone else for enjoying her books, though. How Disney tried and failed to remove Song of the South from history. Thirty-four years is a long run, and everybody feels ready to pack it in while they’re still going strong. Top stories . Posted in Books. Because of this, if an author tells me what a book is about instead of letting my life and experience interact with the written word, I'll go out of my way (theoretically, anyway) to find an alternate interpretation. I also mirror copies here (as they were offline for a while): http://deirdre.net/marion-zimmer-bradley/. I may be open to reevaluating based on later feedback or works, but child abuse and/or molestation are really horrible things, and the people that have committed them at a minimum need a lot of help, and my buying their work anyway seems a form of enabling, and disrespectful to the victims, who are truly important here. I want to unknow this. But the means can't be separated out. Allegations about Marion Zimmer Bradley have surfaced in the last couple of weeks, including a statement from her daughter, Moira Greyland, that she was sexually abused by her mother. Greyhaven. That is spot-on how I feel; I just hadn't been able to come up with the words. But since she was dead and could no longer harm anyone, I just put up the link to Goldin's website on the rare occasions when someone talked about MZB and I had to explain why I loathed her. Tag: Wonder Woman. That kinda takes the bloom off the rose, doesn't it? December 6, 2018 at 9:11 am. Personally, I am particularly interested in authors who characterize well and deep, who seem to have insight and wisdom into the human condition. Marion Zimmer Bradley’s work needs to be recognized and remembered, not burned to cinders and thrown on a trash-heap so we can endlessly recycle these, hers and our own, mistakes. It's different when you're talking about someone like Orson Scott Card, whose politics I find abhorrent (though abhorrent politics are certainly no comparison to child molestation). Does it make her fiction less appealing or is the artist totally separated from her art? Does it devalue her work? If she abused children, she was a terrible human being. Sometime link posts look like the OP doesn't care much about what he's posting. Accused != Guilty. So yes, you can separate work from the author, just as you could have a normal conversation with a person who has done terrible things. I'm curious. This is really hard stuff to read, and I’ve just thrown up my lunch. All the complex depictions of intense mother-daughter relationships just keep reminding me of the awful things the author did to her own daughter. Open in app; Facebook; Tweet; Reddit; Mail; Embed; Permalink ; daore. Years ago, I ran across the deposition she had to give in the (I think) civil trial concerning her collaboration with Breen and the level to which she was involved/aware of what was happening. It was on the list, but just hadn't happened. I felt the same when I first found out. Breendoggle and Marion Zimmer Bradley: A Moral Dilemma I first discovered this author when I was 14 and hungrily consumed her Avalon series. Log In Sign Up. Marion Zimmer Bradley (June 3, 1930 – September 25, 1999) was one of the most prolific authors to write science fiction, with more than sixty novels to her name and others written under pseudonyms. And the Unicorn! ~ Marion Zimmer Bradley ~” Death is the Mother of memory, till-nurturing the soil of future dreams From the perpetual present. Darkover was among the … report. The moment you know something about the author, that's going to inform how you read the next work and tip you into a welcoming or hostile audience position, even if you think it doesn't. I don't always manage to do so, but it's always my intention*. Her life as a surrogate mom to her sibling is tedious until Micon of Atlantis arrives; he seeks help from the Temple. If she didn't, then she's being unfairly accused. Press J to jump to the feed. Darkover, a TV adaptation of Marion Zimmer Bradley’s book series, has been set up at Amazon Studios, I have learned. report. So in that sense, I couldn't care less what kind of person Bradley was as it relates to my relationship with her books. Get Rec'd: Nine sci-fi and fantasy romances to huddle up with in November. Though she was nominated for both the Hugo and Nebula Awards, she never won either of science fiction’s highest honors. Anecdote #1, I know a guy who's father was in the same sci-fi/fantasy author circle as Breen and MZB. Author Interviews. voted Jill Stein. Search for more papers by this author . Anne Rice had a spat very recently against SJWs! Choosing not to buy or read Bradley's (or Card's) work because you disagree with what they've done, said or have chosen to stand for sends a message to their victims and potentially even to others who share their beliefs or might commit those same crimes that what these authors is doing is "not ok." That simple act is actually really powerful in a lot of ways and can do a lot of good for victims. There are clear moral themes In Mists of Avalon and her Darkover books so this news story comes as a surprise. EDIT #2 sigh. A welcoming audience, on the other hand, will find even the mistakes charming. I used to like her books, then she got confusing and irrelevant. http://deirdre.net/marion-zimmer-bradley/. 1. I couldn't actually finish the mists of avalon because some of the situations in there hit a little too close to home in the worst way. Marion's husband, Walter Breen, was also convicted on separate charges of child molestation and died in prison. Moira Greyland (Marion Zimmer Bradley and Walter Breen’s daughter) has agreed to let me share her email. He died in 2010, from natural causes, not suicide as I initially wrote. Greyland’s father –Bradley’s second husband, Walter Breen — was accused of sexually molesting a 12-year-old boy in 1989, ten years after he separated from Bradley, who was accused of covering up her for husband’s pedophile activities. If you … First, I’m really sorry that anyone would be so horrible, and my sympathies for your suffering. Holy fuck that story (and the poems) was intense. When this came up in r/books, someone compared reading a book to mentally "hanging out" with an author. Hello Deirdre. Posts about Marion Zimmer Bradley written by nevalalee. So, if you read MZB's works prior to knowing, I think you'll retain some of the good feelings from previously. Both their adopted son and daughter were removed from their custody and their adoption papers revoked. And had Marion Zimmer Bradley still been alive when I read this, I would have dedicated my online presence to telling as many people as possible what a monster she was. The last time, I was twelve, and able to walk away. I love sci-fi, so I am looking forward to diving into it. Maybe it's different for some among those who are looking for something else: a fast paced plot, extensive world-building, fresh ideas, etc. This reddit Channel is for audiobooks. February 13, 2012 — Producers Ilene Kahn Power and Elizabeth Stanley have secured the rights to Marion Zimmer Bradley’s renowned “Darkover” novels and are currently developing a fantasy television series around the saga. Edited to add: he was chased out of fandom by people who thought he shouldn't sue an old woman, even though his parents started the lawsuit while he was a minor. At exactly the same time, and with far more enduring results, he did something similar for rare coins. If you read a work, before you know anything about the author, then you can judge the work entirely on its own. Marion Zimmer Bradley controversy. Does it make her fiction less appealing or is the artist totally separated from her art?Thanks. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Kind of ironic that in the Darkover books, one of the biggest taboos was sex between people of different generations. 16 Comments » Click for full image. In my opinion, no. I find it really horrifying that people are equating a child abuser and molester with someone who says douche baggy things and spends money on really douche baggy things. Tag Archives: marion zimmer bradley. I don't care how good a book is, it should never be more important than a child's life, innocence, dreams, future and safety. Have at it all you want, but stay respectful. I try to ignore a writer completely anyway when I read. In theater we have what we call "hostile" audiences sometimes. Also, I cannot math good, apparently. Author Interview: Deborah J. Ross. It shows how Marion Zimmer-Bradley weaves the proven facts of archeological and historical research concerning pre-historic spiritual life into a cycle of epic fantasy novels. The Goddess Ascending: Feminist Neo‐Pagan Witchcraft in Marian Zimmer Bradley's Novels. I haven't said that publicly before, but Moira has confirmed it. Blame it on the strep medication, but I got my facts wrong on the victim who died. Thus, J.S. both her marriages broke down over the issue of oral sex, which she found morally degrading and refused to engage in. Posted by 1 day ago. Anecdote #2, (edited because I seriously misremembered the details) I know a woman whose son was one of the "Johnny Does" mentioned in MZB's deposition. I got rid of many of my physical books but kept Mists, it being one of the books I really loved in my early 20s. So I thought I'd make this a self post.What do you guys think of this news story: "Marion Zimmer Bradley was a child abuser"? The editors of Marion Zimmer Bradley’s long-running SWORD & SORCERESS anthology decided this is the last volume. • Bob Adragna • booties • dude • egg • giant bird • leather • Marion Zimmer Bradley • mighty moustache • sixpack abs • Ting! Thanks. EDIT Found the depositions online, here, if you want to read through them. Some "gems" from the depo include: her belief that because Breen was impotent, he was "harmless", his thing for little boys was nothing more than a beautiful expression of love, her support of Breen's pederasty was based on an intellectual belief that because the Ancient Greeks did it, it was natural and normal, she wrote the forward to his book "Greek Love" which defended the act of pederasty as a sacred love between a man and a boy, her repeated denials that anything untoward happened when Breen was repeatedly found in bed with underage boys. This is the cover art for “Mists of Avalon” by Marion Zimmer Bradley. June 10, 2014 at 12:46 am. We welcome respectful dialogue related to speculative fiction in literature, games, film, and the wider world. No one in that literary community wanted to rat Breen and MZB out because of just how hugely influential they were, despite it being common knowledge that he was molesting boys and she was aware of it. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. A writer, editor, journalist, sometimes coder, occasional historian, and all-around scholar, Allyn Gibson is the writer for Diamond Comic Distributors' monthly PREVIEWS catalog, used by comic book shops and throughout the comics industry, and the … I'm put in mind of Sandman #17 (Calliope) by Neil Gaiman. So he has a belief that many find reprehensible, and he puts his money where his mouth very loudly is. This is what is so perplexing about OSC. The problem was that the setting used by Lamb overlapped that used by the writer for her next Darkover novel. Use you as they will, for as long as they like, but then promise that it would result in one or more pieces of great art being created, would that be an offer that people were willing to accept? You read it because it's good. WHY. For me, I had never yet gotten around to reading any MZB. It really just doesn't appeal any more, and now I actually have a good reason to get rid of it. But I think now I'll get rid of it. Marion Zimmer Bradley Baen, Mar 4 2014, $15.00 ISBN: 9781476736297 Daughter of a priest, Domaris raised her younger sister Deoris in the Temple since she was eight years old following the death of their mother in childbirth. mists of avalon fairytale. *I fail at this pretty often, especially when I'm interested in an author. 2007: Marion Zimmer Bradley’s Sword And Sorceress XXII (anthology) 2007: East of the Sun and West of Fort Smith by William Sanders (single-author collection) 2007: J. by William Sanders (reprint) 2007: Senrid by Sherwood Smith; For the next part, let’s assume the following gross oversimplifications: An author’s royalty for a given work is equal year-to-year and book-to-book (and … I can't totally divorce my opinions on what an author has said, or done, from their work. Reply. Deirdre says. Moira Greyland is the daughter of famed novelist Marion Zimmer Bradley, who died in 1999. Nov 24. MZB is dead, so I would have no problem buying Mists of Avalon (if I didn't already own a copy). Submit interesting and specific facts about something that you just found out here. His first occurred in the fifties, before he met Marion. Some things I can mentally separate the knowledge from the art, but not this one. Carrol L. Fry is a professor of English at Northwest Missouri State University, Maryville, MO 64468. Reddit; Email; Print; December 11, 2014 November 30, 2015 Arwen, J.R.R. /r/Fantasy is the internet's largest discussion forum for the greater Speculative Fiction genre. Poor little girl. Bibliomancer Comments: Political arguments ruined the Greyhaven Thanksgiving reunion dinner. 1. When you take the author and throw him or her into the text, you're creating something that has the chance to negate what you've experienced. For fiction, I think it's much the same thing. Tag: Interviews. hide. save. An artist's work should stand on its own merits. We use cookies on our websites for a number of purposes, including analytics and performance, functionality and advertising. Didn't Wagner die 50 years before Hitler came to power? And in any event, it doesn't have anything to do with her works. The actual victim who the lawsuit was about is alive and well. But especially given my interests then if I hear that an author believes the Earth to be flat, so to speak, then it does turn me off, and makes me want to point my attention and money elsewhere. I really liked The Mists of Avalon. What a perfect summer escape! ugh. William Herbert Sheldon achieved his greatest fame by classifying human beings into degrees of three basic categories—ectomorph, endomorph, and mesomorph—based on their physical proportions. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the todayilearned community. 78 comments. This brings me to 2014. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Marion Zimmer Bradley, in a letter to Writers Digest of 1993, claimed that Lamb had written a story set in the world of Darkover, using the characters and setting of the writer. The tragic tale of Typhoid Mary. use the following search parameters to narrow your results: subreddit:subreddit find submissions in "subreddit" author:username find submissions by "username" site:example.com find submissions from "example.com" So I thought I'd make this a self post. Bradley, who was the author of fantasy fiction novels, The Mists of Avalon and the Darkover series, serves as a cautionary tale for commercial writers and fanfiction authors alike. Why should my money and/or time go to supporting someone who is either okay with child abuse, or so delusional that they don't think about/understand it? share. The Ender quartet is an incredible celebration of humanism; that the writer of such an inclusive work could be such a hateful bigot is part of what makes the reaction against him so visceral. If in real life they can't figure out that they're ignorant, and not at least trying to better themselves, then imho the odds seem much less that they'll have what I'm looking for in their work. Published by Allyn. Tolkien, Marion Zimmer Bradley, Middle-Earth. Is it possible to separate the art from the artist in this case? Written by nevalalee . My second gift is a sci-fi novel from Marion Zimmer Bradley - the three Darkover novels in one edition. There's no proof that she molested children, and she's been dead for 15 years now. If in real life they can't figure out that they're ignorant, and not at least trying to better themselves, then imho the odds seem much less that they'll have what I'm looking for in their work. The first time she molested me, I was three. hide. I can't even reread and enjoy Mists of Avalon now. A bad person can create good art, a vile person a beautiful work. It is a lot worse than that. Since he supports causes and organizations I have no stomach for, buying his books indirectly funds those causes and organizations. Thank you for your comment. I can hit you with a frying pan, but you could lose some other memories too. That being said, I've been thinking about this for awhile, and have even contemplated starting a thread. Deborah J. Ross writes and edits fantasy and science fiction. This thread is archived. A false sense of urgency is not warranted. MZB being a pos doesn't make her books less awesome. It is off the list now. Marion Zimmer Bradley is arguably the central figure in the copyright controversy over fanfiction. Personally, I am particularly interested in authors who characterize well and deep, who seem to have insight and wisdom into the human condition. A presence to the process of the journey Comfortable in the not-knowing, Where forgetting, is for getting, Makes more room for the good stuff, Is… The world of science fiction and fantasy is in shock, following news that the daughter of the bestselling late fantasy author Marion Zimmer Bradley has accused her mother of abusing her as a child. I suppose the same thing can be said for OSC's Ender series. Is it okay if you're the victim, or only if someone else is? share. Really? This isn't even a Marion Zimmer Bradley, allegations made after death kind of thing. Stephen Fry talking about one of his favorite composers who unfortunately was also a literal Nazi an anti-Semite that was really popular with the Nazis. save. 81% Upvoted. They 100% have the right to their opinions, so long as it's not illegal or advocating violence, but I also have the right to buy something from another author(s).